Does HIV exist? An explosive interview

by Jon Rappoport

August 11, 2020

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Before we get to Christine Johnson’s interview, a bit of background.

My first book, AIDS INC., was published in 1988. The research I engaged in then formed a foundation for my recent work in exposing the vast fraud called COVID-19.

In 1987-88, my main question eventually became: does HIV cause AIDS? For months, I had blithely assumed the obvious answer was yes. This created havoc in my investigation, because I was facing contradictions I couldn’t solve.

For example, in parts of Africa, people who were chronically ill and dying obviously needed no push from a new virus. All their “AIDS” conditions and symptoms could be explained by their environment: contaminated water supplies; sewage pumped directly into the drinking water; protein-calorie malnutrition; hunger, starvation; medical treatment with immunosuppressive vaccines and drugs; toxic pesticides; fertile farm land stolen by corporations and governments; wars; extreme poverty. The virus cover story actually obscured all these ongoing crimes.

Finally, in the summer of 1987, I found several researchers who were rejecting the notion that HIV caused AIDS. Their reports were persuasive.

I’m shortcutting a great deal of my 1987-8 investigation here, but once HIV was out of the picture for me, many pieces fell into place. I discovered that, in EVERY group supposedly at “high-risk” for AIDS, their conditions and symptoms could be entirely explained by factors that had nothing to do with a new virus.

AIDS was not one condition. It was an umbrella label, used to re-package a number of immunosuppressive conditions and create the illusion of a new and unique and single “pandemic.”

Several years after the publication of AIDS INC., I became aware of a quite different emerging debate going on under the surface of research: DOES HIV EXIST?

Was the purported virus ever truly discovered?

And THAT question led to: what is the correct procedure for discovering a new virus?

The following 1997 interview, conducted by brilliant freelance journalist, Christine Johnson, delves into these questions:

How should researchers prove that a particular virus exists? How should they isolate it? What are the correct steps?

These questions, and their answers, reside at the heart of most disease research—and yet, overwhelmingly, doctors never explore them or even consider them.

Johnson interviews Dr. Eleni Papadopulos, “a biophysicist and leader of a group of HIV/AIDS scientists from Perth in Western Australia. Over the past decade and more she and her colleagues have published many scientific papers questioning the HIV/AIDS hypothesis…”

Here I’m publishing and highlighting excerpts from the interview. Technical issues are discussed. Grasping them is not the easiest exercise you’ve ever done, but I believe the serious reader can comprehend the vital essentials.

CJ: Does HIV cause AIDS?

EP: There is no proof that HIV causes AIDS.

CJ: Why not?

EP: For many reasons, but most importantly, because there is no proof that HIV exists.

… CJ: Didn’t Luc Montagnier and Robert Gallo [purportedly the co-discoverers of HIV] isolate HIV back in the early eighties?

EP: No. In the papers published in Science by those two research groups, there is no proof of the isolation of a retrovirus from AIDS patients. [HIV is said to be a retrovirus.]

CJ: They say they did isolate a virus.

EP: Our interpretation of the data differs. To prove the existence of a virus you need to do three things. First, culture cells and find a particle you think might be a virus. Obviously, at the very least, that particle should look like a virus. Second, you have to devise a method to get that particle on its own so you can take it to pieces and analyze precisely what makes it up. Then you need to prove the particle can make faithful copies of itself. In other words, that it can replicate.

CJ: Can’t you just look down a microscope and say there’s a virus in the cultures?

EP: No, you can’t. Not all particles that look like viruses are viruses.

… CJ: My understanding is that high-speed centrifugation is used to produce samples consisting exclusively of objects having the same density, a so-called “density-purified sample.” Electron microscopy is used to see if these density-purified samples consist of objects which all have the same appearance — in which case the sample is an isolate — and if this appearance matches that of a retrovirus, in terms of size, shape, and so forth. If all this is true, then you are three steps into the procedure for obtaining a retroviral isolate. (1) You have an isolate, and the isolate consists of objects with the same (2) density and (3) appearance of a retrovirus. Then you have to examine this isolate further, to see if the objects in it contain reverse transcriptase [an enzyme] and will replicate when placed in new cultures. Only then can you rightfully declare that you have obtained a retroviral isolate.

EP: Exactly. It was discovered that retroviral particles have a physical property which enables them to be separated from other material in cell cultures. That property is their buoyancy, or density, and this was utilized to purify the particles by a process called density gradient centrifugation.

The technology is complicated, but the concept is extremely simple. You prepare a test tube containing a solution of sucrose, ordinary table sugar, made so the solution is light at the top but gradually becomes heavier, or more dense, towards the bottom. Meanwhile, you grow whatever cells you think may contain your retrovirus. If you’re right, retroviral particles will be released from the cells and pass into the culture fluids. When you think everything is ready, you decant a specimen of culture fluids and gently place a drop on top of the sugar solution. Then you spin the test tube at extremely high speeds. This generates tremendous forces, and particles present in that drop of fluid are forced through the sugar solution until they reach a point where their buoyancy prevents them from penetrating any further. In other words, they drift down the density gradient until they reach a spot where their own density is the same as that region of the sugar solution. When they get there they stop, all together. To use virological jargon, that’s where they band. Retroviruses band at a characteristic point. In sucrose solutions they band at a point where the density is 1.16 gm/ml.

That band can then be selectively extracted and photographed with an electron microscope. The picture is called an electron micrograph, or EM. The electron microscope enables particles the size of retroviruses to be seen, and to be characterized by their appearance.

CJ: So, examination with the electron microscope tells you what fish you’ve caught?

EP: Not only that. It’s the only way to know if you’ve caught a fish. Or anything at all.

CJ: Did Montagnier and Gallo do this?

EP: This is one of the many problems. Montagnier and Gallo did use density gradient banding, but for some unknown reason they did not publish any Ems [photos] of the material at 1.16 gm/ml…this is quite puzzling because in 1973 the Pasteur Institute hosted a meeting attended by scientists, some of whom are now amongst the leading HIV experts. At that meeting the method of retroviral isolation was thoroughly discussed, and photographing the 1.16 band of the density gradient was considered absolutely essential.

CJ: But Montagnier and Gallo did publish photographs of virus particles.

EP: No. Montagnier and Gallo published electron micrographs of culture fluids that had not been centrifuged, or even separated from the culture cells, for that matter. These EMs contained, in addition to many other things, including the culture cells and other things that clearly are not retroviruses, a few particles which Montagnier and Gallo claimed are retroviruses, and which all belonged to the same retroviral species, now called HIV. But photographs of unpurified particles don’t prove that those particles are viruses. The existence of HIV was not established by Montagnier and Gallo — or anyone since — using the method presented at the 1973 meeting.

CJ: And what was that method?

EP: All the steps I have just told you. The only scientific method that exists. Culture cells, find a particle, isolate the particle, take it to pieces, find out what’s inside, and then prove those particles are able to make more of the same with the same constituents when they’re added to a culture of uninfected cells.

CJ: So before AIDS came along there was a well-tried method for proving the existence of a retrovirus, but Montagnier and Gallo did not follow this method?

EP: They used some of the techniques, but they did not undertake every step including proving what particles, if any, are in the 1.16 gm/ml band of the density gradient, the density that defines retroviral particles.

CJ: But what about their pictures?

EP: Montagnier’s and Gallo’s electron micrographs…are of entire cell cultures, or of unpurified fluids from cultures…”

—end of interview excerpt—

If you grasp the essentials of this discussion, you’ll see there is every reason to doubt the existence of HIV, because the methods for proving its existence were not followed.

And so…as I’ve reported these past few months, there is every reason to doubt and reject the existence of the COVID virus, since correct large-scale electron microscope studies have never been done.

I kept the Christine Johnson interview, and other similar information, in mind when, for example, I explored the dud epidemics called SARS and 2009 Swine Flu.

How many viruses have been named as causes of disease, when in fact those viruses have never been isolated or proved to exist?

Of course, conventional-consensus researchers and doctors will scoff at any attempt to raise these issues. For them, “the science is settled.” Meaning: they don’t want to think. They don’t want to stir the waters.

A few years ago, chemist David Rasnick sent a request to the CDC, asking for evidence demonstrating that the Ebola virus had ever been isolated from a human. The answers he received did not begin to approach a level of certainty.

After 30 years working as a reporter in the area of deep medical-research fraud, I’ve seen that false science occurs in levels.

The deeper you go, the stranger it gets. To put it another way: the deeper you go, the worse it gets.


The Matrix Revealed

(To read about Jon’s mega-collection, The Matrix Revealed, click here.)

Jon Rappoport

The author of three explosive collections, THE MATRIX REVEALED, EXIT FROM THE MATRIX, and POWER OUTSIDE THE MATRIX, Jon was a candidate for a US Congressional seat in the 29th District of California. He maintains a consulting practice for private clients, the purpose of which is the expansion of personal creative power. Nominated for a Pulitzer Prize, he has worked as an investigative reporter for 30 years, writing articles on politics, medicine, and health for CBS Healthwatch, LA Weekly, Spin Magazine, Stern, and other newspapers and magazines in the US and Europe. Jon has delivered lectures and seminars on global politics, health, logic, and creative power to audiences around the world. You can sign up for his free NoMoreFakeNews emails here or his free OutsideTheRealityMachine emails here.

72 comments on “Does HIV exist? An explosive interview

  1. Low Voltage says:

    Even if they could prove that SARS-CoV-2 did exist, they would still have to explain why so many “infected” people show no symptoms of the disease.

    They explain nothing. All they do is count test results, show pictures of sick people, and attribute almost any cause of death to COVID-19.

  2. BS Detector says:

    People are so quick to “blame the bug”. Like the harmless enterovirus named for a well known but erroneously attributed environmental poisoning illness called poliomyelitis.

  3. Lonnie says:

    Why hasn’t some scientist, or group/organisation performed those isolation techniques? I believe Jon is right, thank you, but it sure seems that, if the virus exists it (the proof) certainly would have been done by now? Anyone?

  4. From Elsewhere says:

    Once “they” say it’s true, with the proper, interested support, many go along out of pride, greed or just… cowardice. Without checks and balances, we are lost.

    • James says:

      They get them so invested, invested in ten years of education, a high paying job and who is going to go against the narrative and risk losing everything they have work so hard for and are so invested in maintaining for their windfall of funds and job to continue?

  5. RegretLeft says:

    It’s not that hard: Some researchers said “A” EP replied “no, you didn’t use the accepted and conventional techniques” (and now EP is ignored and ostracized (and A and everyone else goes on to make money and rent seek))

    Good day to (finally) order JR’s Matrix Revealed. I used my Covid UBI Card! – And I plan to draw down the rest as cash.

    • Hayden says:

      Nothing like PRIVATE debt loan money from the 3 trillion USA borrowed. Jacinda borrowed 50 billion for New Zealand just scum bags who are on the mafia exclusive club political class payroll.

    • Bri says:

      Agreed RL. Too many rent seekers out there. EP is an honourable scientist.

  6. John Harris says:

    Thank you for this informative post. Even assuming the existence of HIV or SARS-CoV-2, a further problem arises: do either of them actually cause disease? For coronaviruses associated with cold symptoms, for example, my understanding is that science has yet to establish the disease-causing process for any of them. Given the same viral infection, different people respond with different symptoms. And, a given symptom may result from multiple viruses. Why this is the case, no one (yet) knows. But we are supposed to believe that in a matter of a few months months, science has conclusively identified a novel coronavirus (“SARS-CoV-2”) and a novel disease (“COVID-19”) that this novel virus causes?

    • tony bonn says:

      you are on the right track but it is simpler. viruses do not cause disease or pathology. viruses are the results rather than the causes of disease. everyone chasing a virus is going to slam into a brick wall. viruses are organic non-living, non-reproducing proteins produced uniquely by different cells and are encoded with your rna and dna to safely breakdown wastes and toxins which bacteria cannot handle. everyone at all times has viruses. without them you die. there is no such thing as a lethal or harmful virus. you cannot “catch a virus” nor can you communicate one.

  7. Opie Poik says:

    Every human institution has its unquestionable clergy. Priests, doctors, politicians, historians, field marshals, billionaires, entertainment stars, yer mom, are all regarded the same. They’re holy. It qualifies as a cognitive bias. In the case of HIV, “those” people “deserve” it. AIDS is caused by dissing the god of this age; burning your hand is caused by an oopsie on the stove. “Modern” humanity is still largely a cargo cult, psychologically speaking.

  8. Nestor says:

    This article says HIV is not a virus. Why all these healthy and not only poor people in the 80’s and 90’s suddenly started to lose their immune system until death when the antiretroviral did not exist ? I lost so many friends and people I knew in the 80’s and 90’s in Europe, and not in Africa. Let’s imagine that it is not a virus. Why not. But the articles does not explain what is destroying the immune system and why the antiretrovirals stop the destruction. So something is going wrong here.

    • wardropper says:

      If I understand the gist of what I read a couple of days ago, contaminated technology and the unnecessary use of inappropriate medication undermined the patients’ immune systems, so that they could not resist other pathogens. They basically died of pneumonia, streptococcus, etc.
      I don’t know enough about antiretrovirals to be able to speculate on whether they contain anything which might strengthen immune systems. That’s just my two-cents’ worth.

      • tony bonn says:

        aids was simply a name for illnesses contracted by peoples whose willing or unwilling lifestyles compromised immune systems. in the west it was invariably related to chronic drug abuse which led to poor nutrition etc. in africa it was poor sanitation, diet, general living conditions. it is really that simple. as i noted elsewhere, see dr peter duesberg.

        • Wayne Anthony says:

          Wasn’t the AIDS epidemic more about the use of amyl nitrates which, beginning with the gay movement in 1969, were dispensed freely in the discos, etc. Not saying I know but from what I’ve been able to gather, this might have played a big part. During the seventies and eighties I was employed in county government. A co-worker – a gay man – told me that he had taken “poppers” once and it made him very ill. Can someone please comment on this?

    • Brin Edwards says:

      This helps to explain illness.
      Also research terrain theory more ????????

    • Pft says:

      The earliest victims of HIV in US were promiscuous gays who had very unhealthy life styles. Their immune systems were stressed from drug abuse, poppers and STD’s . On top of that came a new disease that added more stress. Many of the early victims participated in Hep B trials starting from 1978 and given to gays in LA, SF and NYC

      Initial tests were inaccurate and had many false positives. This inflated the case counts. Those who tested positive had enormous amounts of stress which is immunosuppressive.

      Then along came AZT. AZT Is toxic, especially at the high doses given at the start. Fauci recommended everyone even HIV positive without AIDS take it. Many of those who did died.

      Then along came the other antivirals and AZT doses were reduced. Death rates dropped. They lived longer. But was it the antivirals was was it no AZT or lower dose AZT

      Curiously among the AIDS patients that died before AZT , many developed KS which was previously a rare disease. KS much less prevalent today in AIDS patients. Its very likely that whatever was responsible might have been a cofactor, perhaps present in the Hep B vaccine trials or unique to the gay community

      There are many individuals living who have never developed AIDS despite never taking antivirals since they were dx 30 years ago, they are called long-term non progressors. Although estimated to be 5%, this may be a significant undercount as most HIV positives in US go on antivirals early like Magic Johnson. Pretty nice deal for Big Pharma given the cost

      But you know, maybe there is something that causes AIDS, maybe its HIV or maybe its more than one thing. All we know is despite many tens of billions dollars spent, no cure or even a vaccine. Cant cure or prevent something if its caused by something you don’t know about. Maybe another virus involved, but they don’t want you to know because it might be tied to something they want to promote

      Cant know anything for sure.

      • NC says:

        Robert Gallo lauded virologist peter Duesberg as the greatest virologist on the planet, that is UNTIL he disagreed with the HIV hypothesis. Duesberg said that with gay males, intravenous drug users, and hemophiliacs the problem was DRUGS. Gay males in the 80’s were consuming prodigious quantities of amyl nitrite (poppers) as well as a host of other toxic drugs; they often ejaculated many times per day which according to TCM is very hard on the body, especially the kidneys; add in low self-esteem and you have a recipe for collapse. For IV drugusers, it’s clear…it’s NOT the shared needles, it’s the DRUGS!. If AIDS was a STD, then why did it not surge with female prostitutes, UNLESS they happened to use lots of drugs. It was a lifestyle thing in the 80’s which was at the root of the “outbreak”. In Africa people who worked there for decades said it was what Jon pointed to; poor sanitation and malnutrition which caused “wasting disease”, and had done so for decades before it was all renamed as AIDS. Then of course the toxic drugs such as AZT finished everyone off as it destroyed T cells (which was blamed on the mythical HIV)…and yet the MDs and masses do NOT want to hear this…

    • Greg C. says:

      So you’re saying that healthy people cannot lose their immune system except to a virus? Totally illogical. The immune system is supposed to protect against viruses, not be destroyed by them.

      • tony bonn says:

        you don’t understand viruses. viruses preserve health. under no circumstance do they harm it. you would die without viruses. either in this post or yesterday’s i elaborated on viruses. no one has ever died of a virus

    • Madness says:

      Poisoning, that what.
      It worth to read back Jon’s articles about it.

      Plus you’ll find many others here:
      One of the most interesting:

      Did you know that cats also can have AIDS (and more…). When a young cat dies (due to over-vacciantion, overpoisoning – typical when the dear owners sing for cat-plans to “give the bes” and save some money.
      They usually die due to that their immune-systems give up. That’s the point when vets try to explain to the owners that it was something ‘inherited1 but of course no proof but more often without testing they put to sleep poor things with umbrella diagnosis. Favourites are AIDS and FIP. Both of them are umbrella and can’t be tested in a reliable way.

      But what is more interesting that there is a huge difference who they describe (and how the vet knows) the illness itself depending that which county. In countries where the firs language is English FIP is not an infectious disease or rarely, they don’t know the reason so they came up a weird theory like those cats who got corona-virus! infection might die due to FIP later as they might have a genetic “switch” what just switches on. The corona was the reason but by the time it turns into FIP (anytime later even years) In Central-European countries FIP is a contagious disease always.
      There are two forms: dry and vet, vet is visible (liquid in the belly) but extremely rare. Dry is not visible and acts just like cat AIDS. BS! (Sorry.) FIP = Feline Infectious Peritonitis is basically, notice that INFECTIOUS (only in its name!)

      The reality behind these. Poisoning, poor food, vaccines, flea and worm killers, other environmental poisons.
      But they again find some handy viruses to blame doesn’t matter that tests (again) don’t work.

      Pets or us, pattern is always the same. Lies and if something goes wrong bigger lies.

    • Bri says:

      Hi Nestor. You have just asked the million dollar question unable to be answered fully here. ty

    • tony bonn says:

      if you are truly curious about this subject, see dr peter duesberg. he has (or until very recently) a website which archived his articles on hiv/aids which thoroughly debunk the hiv-aids myth. he was basically fired from usc (or similar california institution for his controversial views). he was a brilliant scientist. you can read his credentials on the site. hiv does not cause aids. it is at best a retrovirus and completely safe. but i am not sure that he ever understood that viruses do not cause illness.

    • john says:

      AZT was prescribed to many people labelled “hiv positive” in the 1980s….the most toxic substance ever approved for human use (yet BANNED in 1960s as too toxic for humans). the new antiretrovirals are less toxic so the mass deaths disapperared from front page and the new drugs were hailed as the “miracle” drugs. Hitler was not this clever.

    • James says:

      I think you will find that AZT killed off many of them, not HIV.

    • tlc says:

      Do some research on the new Hepatitis B jab they rolled out in Manhanttan in gay communities right before the “HIV/AIDs” plandemic. Covid is no different

  9. Siouxma says:

    How can we forget that MH17 flight shot down over Ukraine in 2014 that had several AIDS researchers aboard heading for the big conference in Australia? Here is good old St. FAUCI being interviewed about the terrible loss of life- again he can hardly contain his glee.

    • tony bonn says:

      thank you! i did not know this part of the flight kill. now i know why it happened. bush, obama, gates and company were murdering naturopaths and other alternative medicine researchers by the score for the past 20-40 years. they did not want the truth about viruses coming out. viruses are the result, not the cause of illness.

    • Jackie says:

      I’m no fan of Fauci, but he’s not gleeful here. And none of the AIDS researchers who died were on the side of those questioning the HIV-AIDS narrative. They were all on board with the mainstream narrative.

  10. Kia Kaha says:

    Why FOOD PRICES Are Going Up Like a Rocket

    Trump’s Eviction Executive Order Is a Massive Nothing Burger

    The antagonists continue to deceive and deploy their weapons of war against the people worldwide.

  11. Larry C says:

    I’m giving my Covid-19 shot to Bill Gates!


  12. Hayden says:

    what did Freddy mercury die from. Queen lead singer.

    • Hayden says:

      Interesting so May have been Freddys lifestyle causing his condition?

      9.3Why do gay men test “HIV-positive” so frequently, if it isn’t an STD?

      9.3.1Certain practices common among gay men make testing “HIV-positive” likely, for example, the consequences of intestinal dysbiosis. That condition can also bring on serious illness, including the fungal infections that characterized AIDS-1 (sections,

      9.4Questions posed through ignorance of the facts about “HIV” and “AIDS”.

      9.4.1“Why are so many mid-life gay men getting HIV?” 492 Because everything about “HIV” and “HIV/AIDS” is most frequent in young middle age, mid-30s to mid-40s (sections, 7.1.1).

      • NC says:

        The PCR test for HIV is just as useless as the PCR test for Covid or any other virus. RT PCR was developed by Kary Mullis for manufacturing NOT for testing, and he said that it should not be used for testing. Since PCR was used, Mullis looked for any scientific proof of HIV and could not find any! Go back and question the original hypothesis (HIV causes AIDS) rather than to assume that there is any proof of causation. HIV-AIDS is big business, not science

        • Hayden says:

          I would have to sit a course in virology to know all the jargon. Did you see the link i posted it comes from CASE AGAINST hiv site.

          By John Lauritsen

          In 1983 I began thinking critically about the newly named “Acquired Immunodeficiency Syndrome” or “AIDS”. The entire medical literature at this time amounted to a couple of dozen articles. In this year I joined forces with Hank Wilson in San Francisco to warn gay men that the premier gay drug — “poppers” or the nitrite inhalants — was harmful to the health and very likely a cause of “AIDS”. We prepared and distributed a pamphlet, “Poppers & AIDS”, and wrote letters to the gay press warning about poppers.

          im not assuming anything its these same people saying its your lifestyle…poppers etc i think you misunderstand my post. i was trying to firgur out what cause Fred death if it was not from HIV.

        • Hayden says:

          Again what did Freddy die from if not from the HIV INDUCED AIDS

          • Bri says:

            Hayden. – Poppers.

          • tony bonn says:

            prove that hiv causes aids. you can’t. it’s a lie. he may have had something someone called aids but retroviruses do not cause disease.

          • Amanda says:

            AZT most likely.

            Was Freddie actually sick when he got tested or did he get tested b/c of the media fear porn? If he was sick when he got tested (prior to taking AZT) then he probably got sick from using poppers, which was a sex party drug (poison) the wild gays were taking back in the day.

          • Amanda says:

            Dr. Nancy Banks has talked about this extensively–she says the original groups of gay men who came down with AIDS did so because they blew out their own immune systems due to their extremely unhealthy life style, which included partying, poor nutrition, extreme promiscuity with many sex partners, chronic antibiotic use for frequent STDs, alcohol and drug use, especially poppers (NIH was originally looking into poppers as the cause of AIDS until the virus as cover story was created).

          • James says:

            The HIV drugs could do it.

  13. Pft says:

    The SARS-CoV-2 /COVID and HIV/AIDS debates are similar

    With HIV/AIDS we have claims of isolation and purification (not), lack of EM from blood samples from AIDS patients (only cultured samples contaminated with cellular debris), expanding case definitions, faulty tests due to lack of purification of the virus), lack of proof HIV if it even exists causes AIDS in people or similar animals, and false claims the RT enzymes are unique to retroviruses.

    Which protein–antigens are specific to HIV and HIV alone can only come from successful virus isolation and purification to verify that all of these proteins actually originate from HIV particles

    Attempts at purifying have been made but have been criticized for their ambiguous findings or for their use of cultured samples . Much of the genetic material attributed to HIV is in fact DNA or RNA from decaying cells having endogenous retroviruses (HERVs)

    In 2010, Ettiene de Harven – the scientist who “produced the first electron micrograph of a retrovirus (the Friend leukemia virus)” through EM research in 1960 said:

    All the images of particles supposedly representing HIV and published in scientific as well as in lay publications derive from EM studies of cell cultures. They never show HIV particles coming directly from an AIDS patient .

    Why is it important to obtain EM images of HIV from AIDS patients, as opposed to images of HIV cultured in a laboratory? According to de Harven, non-viral micoorganisms frequently contaminate cell cultures and show up very easily in EM. It is quite difficult to obtain absolutely pure cell cultures, especially because the culturing process itself – the growth factors added to the culture, such as “T cell lymphocyte growth factor (TCGF), interleukin 2, or corticosteroid hormones” – can introduce potential contaminants. HERVs, for example, are often generated by cells that have been stressed or hyperstimulated to grow in cultures.

    Montagnier also acknowledges the problems with relying on EM to identify a retrovirus, given the difficulties with purifying viral samples. In an interview given in 1997, he reflects on those first HIV images from cultured samples, produced in his laboratory at the Pasteur Institute:

    DT (Djamel Tahi): Why do the EM photographs published by you, come from the culture and not from the purification?

    LM (Luc Montagnier): There was so little production of virus it was impossible to see what might be in a concentrate of virus from a gradient. There was not enough virus to do that …

    Tahi (to Dauguet): How long have you searched in purified gradients before finding the first images of the virus?

    Dauguet: I first worked on gradients of purified virus for 15 days.

    Tahi: Have you found viral particles?

    Dauguet: We have never seen virus particles in the purified virus. What we have seen all the time was cellular debris, no virus particles (D. Tahi, personal communication).
    DT: How is it possible without EM pictures from the purification, to know whether these particles are viral and appertain to a retrovirus, moreover a specific retrovirus?

    LM: Well, there were the pictures of the budding. We published images of budding which are characteristic of retroviruses. Having said that, on the morphology alone one could not say it was truly a retrovirus …

    Montagnier’s single electron micrograph showing budding from the umbilical cord lymphocyte culture is the only electron microscopic evidence that BRU’s cells were infected with a retrovirus

    Its been known since 1979 that umbilical cord blood is likely to carry human endogenous retrovirus.
    These cultures are hyperstimulated with one or two growth factors such as phytohemagglutinin (PHA) and T cell lymphocyte growth factor (TCGF). All these factors are known to activate the expression of endogenous retroviruses (HERVs) that are defective viruses and may acquire envelopes and bud on the surface of cells activated by these factors.

    Presumably, this is exactly what happened when cord blood lymphocytes were activated with PHA and TCGF in the Pasteur 1983 experiments . Unfortunately, the control experiments needed to verify this interpretation were not done.

    Montagnier had no control. The control should have been the addition of supernatant from a healthy patient to the umbilical cord lymphocyte culture. The culture as well as density gradient purified supernatant from test and controls should have been submitted for electron microscopy with Dauguet expending the same time and effort examining both sets of samples.

    That there were no controls was confirmed by Dauguet when he was asked if he examined controls: “No…I do not think so. The samples on which I worked were from infected cultures”.

    It appears, therefore, there is little consensus regarding what the existing EM images reflect: are the visualized particles HIV or something else?

    According to Papadopulos-Eleopulos and colleagues, “some of the best known retrovirologists including Peter Duesberg, Robert Gallo, and Howard Temin have been telling us that particles may have the morphological characteristics of retroviruses but are not viruses”

    It is feasible, therefore, that EM images are, in fact, depictions of (a) microvesicles (or protein particles), not viral or infectious in nature, but not eliminated even when using purified samples or (b) human endogenous retroviruses – defective, non-infectious retroviruses associated with the host’s own genome

    According to the HIV experts Xiping Wei, who cites Michael Piatak that “Virtually all HIV-1- infected individuals, regardless of clinical stage, exhibit persistent plasma viraemia in the range of 102 to 107 virions per ml”.

    Gelderblom writes “preparations for electron microscopic diagnostic procedures require particle concentrations of at least 106 to 108/mL.

    In 2014 it was reported that recently infected patients may have viraemia as high as 108 particles per ml. This being the case it would undoubtedly be possible to confirm viraemia using electron microscopy in all HIV positive patients. Yet, to date there is not one published electron micrograph proving the presence of retroviral particles in any patient with “HIV viraemia” including “in the range of 102 to 107 virions per ml”.
    Many images purporting to be “HIV” are artists’ or computer graphics, not original, untouched electron micrographs.

    In two key publications in 1987 and 1989 – in Cancer Research and in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences – Duesberg argued: retroviruses are not known for killing cells. In other words, retroviruses are not “cytocidal.” If anything, retroviruses were once thought to be associated with cancer because they cause precisely the opposite of cell death; they contribute to cells’ growth or proliferation. In his view, HIV’s inability to kill cells could not explain the suppression of the T-cells in the immune system, as proposed by the teams who discovered HIV.

    Some animal retroviruses will cause “AIDS” when injected into hosts of the appropriate species. Simian immunodeficiency virus (SIV), a monkey retrovirus, attracts most of the attention. But these animal diseases can be called “AIDS” only by stretching the definition to extremes. They do not include most of the human AIDS conditions such as Kaposi’s sarcoma or dementia. Rather, the animal symptoms usually resemble the flu: The animals become sick within days or not at all, without long latent periods; some animals recover by raising an immune response and never suffer a relapse; and those that die must be injected with large quantities of the virus while very young, before they have developed any immune system at all. In the wild, their cousins retain antibodies against SIV all their lives without ever becoming sick from the virus. These laboratory diseases are, in all respects, very traditional viral flu-like diseases, but HIV scientists rename them “AIDS.”

    Hemophiliacs initially infected with contaminated blood in the late 70’s into mid 80’s before blood supplies were screened actually were living longer until Fauci recommended even healthy HIV patients take AZT in 1987 and then they started dropping like flies

    Duesberg points to another cause: contaminants of factor VIII, a clotting factor derived from donated blood that is used to treat hemophilia.
    Factor VIII is frequently contaminated with foreign proteins from blood donors, and Duesberg suggests that these contaminants cause the immunodeficiency seen in AIDS.
    In his view, HIV is a harmless passenger that serves as an index of the number of blood transfusions. “Since HIV is a rare contaminant of factor VIII, it is a marker of the num-
    ber of immunosuppressive transfusions received,” argues Duesberg. He contends that hemophiliacs infected with HIV are simply the ones who have received the most factor VIII—with the accompanying contaminants.

    He cites 16 studies showing that HIV- negative hemophiliacs have abnormal ratios of two types of critical immune-system cells: CD4 and CD8. The normal ratio of CD4s to CD8s is about 2, but the studies Duesberg cites indicate that hemophiliacs who are not HIV-positive have ratios closer to 1. He concludes that even in the absence of HIV, hemophiliacs suffer immune deficiencies—and hence that some factor other than HIV is responsible for AIDS among them.

    For many “HIV dissenters,” Duesberg’s most compelling argument against HIV as the cause of AIDS in hemophiliacs is his observation that the median age of hemophiliacs has increased in spite of high HIV infection rates. As Duesberg notes, studies have reported that the median age of hemophiliacs in the United States has risen from 1972 to through the early 1980s. “

    CDC’s Terence Chorba and his co-workers concluded that, because of the introduction in the 1960s of clotting treatments that prevent death from hemorrhage, death rates dropped from 0.5 to 0.4 per million from 1968 to 1978. But from 1979 to 1989, the period when most U.S. hemophiliacs became infected with HIV, the death rate among hemophiliacs increased dramatically—to 1.3 per million.
    The median age at death of all U.S. hemophiliacs fell from a high of 63 in 1983 to 38 in 1989. That change was due to the increase in deaths among HIV-positive hemophiliacs, the authors note, which soared from 19.9% in the period 1983–1985 to 55.1% in the period 1987–1989.

    Duesberg argues that the life-span dropped between 1987 and 1989 because of “the large-scale administration of AZT to American hemophiliacs.” He calls the drop “an iatrogenic artifact.”

    Bobby Wiseman has hemophilia. He was 15 years old when he tested positive for HIV. “I was co-infected with HIV and hepatitis C,” he says. He was told that life expectancy for those with such a diagnosis was three years.
    That was 1982. In 2008, 26 years later, Wiseman is the manager of special projects for the National Hemophilia Foundation. He still has not been prescribed antiviral medicines. “I told my doctor, ‘If my count dips too low, put me on the meds,’” Wiseman says. “Until then, I don’t want to know the numbers.”

    Luc Montagnier announcement in the midst of the Sixth International Conference on AIDS in June of 1990 that HIV could not itself be enough to cause AIDS. The virus needed a cofactor, and he had already chosen a candidate-Shyh-Ching Lo’s mycoplasma!

    A 1991 Science article mentioned one of the direct consequences of such unapproved behavior by Montagnier:
    He has had difficulty getting his new work published. One paper, for example, was rejected last year by Nature. “I have high resistance from the virologists, and high enthusiasm from the mycoplasmologists,” Montagnier says.

    As for Reverse Transcriptase in 2006 the HIV expert David Ho told a PBS interviewer, “Reverse transcriptase is an enzyme of retroviruses…one way to look for retroviruses is simply to measure reverse transcription capability, and in fact that is how Barré-Sinoussi and her colleagues discovered HIV…They showed this reverse transcriptase activity as being transmissible in the tissue culture”.

    For Montagnier detection of reverse transcriptase activity ≡ HIV infection. The same conclusion is asserted by all other HIV researchers including Gallo and his colleagues in 1984 performing similar experiments on their patients. However, the interpretation RT activity ≡ retrovirus is contradicted by the scientific evidence.

    When interviewed in July 1997 at the Pasteur Institute by Tahi, Montagnier correctly referred to “RT activity, which is the enzyme characteristic of retroviruses”.He did not say specific “of retroviruses”.

    In 1971 Nobel laureate Howard Temin, the discoverer of reverse transcriptase, reported the isolation of a reverse transcriptase from uninfected rat cells and concluded that reverse transcriptase activity does not “necessarily represent presence of retroviruses”.

    In 1976 none other than Gallo showed that reverse transcription occurs in normal, non-virus infected, PHA stimulated cells.

    In House of Numbers, Nobel laureate David Baltimore told Leung, “reverse transcription is very widespread”.

    Yet the HIV/AIDS scientific literature is replete with claims of detection, transmission, isolation and even quantification of HIV based on nothing more than the detection of reverse transcriptase activity.

    Despite all the evidence to the contrary (much of it their own from the 1970s) leading HIV experts still falsely claim reverse transcriptase is retroviral specific.

  14. Art Thomas says:

    Dr. Peter Duesberg, the renowned virologist at Berkley, at the peak of his career, singlehandedly went up against Gallo, Faucci, et al to expose the HIV/AIDS scam. You can read about it in his book, “Inventing the AIDS Virus”. Beside being a courageous scientist he’s a good writer with an infectious sense of humor. Web page,

    • Deuce says:

      Dr Kary Mullis inventor of PCR and a Nobel Prize winner also supported Duesberg and levied the same doubts and criticisms. Today he is very critical of the substandard PCR based tests for COVID asserting that they are garbage and shouldn’t be trusted. Smart people notice when history repeats itself right in front of their eyes. Especially when they were part of it the first time.

  15. Hélios says:

    Sad news, the world lost a great researcher : David Crowe died on July 12 from a cancer, 63 old…

    Another news : the book “Virus Mania” is been reedited with a new chapter about fake covid19

    • CynthiEmm says:

      Oh my, I had just started listening to his podcast last month…he had 3 podcasts where the talked about his diagnosis. His last podcast was the end of June or so and he sounded so unwell. Terrible, it literally happened so fast. What a loss.

    • CynthiEmm says:

      I listened to his podcast only recently, and he literally did 4 podcasts after his diagnosis in May. His death happened so rapidly. Such a loss.

  16. Deuce says:

    Good stuff. I from the outset noticed the similarities between the COVID narrative and the HiV narrative. And that many of the players are the exact same. Who was Robert Gallo’s protege in his quest to falsely claim discovery of HIV and retroviruses? That included a ten year court battle to ‘prove’ a lie? Dr Tony Fauci of course. Has COVID yet been isolated? Passed Koch’s Postulates? No. Has HIV yet been isolated? Passed Koch’s Postulates? No. Can you have COVID by taking one test but not have it taking another? Yes. Can you have HIV based on one test and not have it based on another? Yes. Were we all going to die from AIDs only to witness very few people die? Yes. Were we all going to die from COVID only to witness very few people die? Yes. Was the effort against HIV hung from the outset on introducing a new class of pharmaceuticals? Yes. Was the effort against COVID hung from the outset on introducing a new class of vaccine? Are you beginning to see what’s going on here yet? History repeats itself. History carbon copies itself. Open your eyes.

  17. Green SUP says:

    So HIV doesn’t exist? AIDS is not a disease but just bad luck? And Covid-19 is a myth, not a virus? The 160K+ Americans who died primarily because of the viral infection didn’t really die? Or they just had a bad day and never came home?

    While scientific facts apparently are not really scientific or facts and clearly don’t matter to some, take a look at

    • Bri says:

      Hi green sup. Those Americans died from pnuemonia. The statistics over the last decade show a similar death rate over 2 quarters per year from this illness. It’s a beat up.

    • Michael says:

      Hello GreenSup, HIV has never been properly purified and isolated, Jon describes that with the article above, not to mention how can the phantom virus be the cause of HIV when a large number of people with so called Aids diseases in Africa don’t have HIV. Aids defining diseases have always been around for years, it has been know by medical community. Here is a good Video from Dr. T.C. Fry explaining things. And with Covid you need to really read all the articles that Jon has published to understand how when you relabel deaths and change the rules by adding different codes to label deaths how then you’re able boost the numbers to make it seem like a pandemic. Diseases has always been from chemical poisons from the air water and food and electromagnetic radiation and lack of vitamins and minerals for the cells.

    • tony bonn says:

      hiv is a retrovirus. it exists but does not cause anything except possibly health. who said anything about aids being a question of luck? “aids” is due to chronic health compromising factors totally controllable by those in the west. hiv does not cause aids. covid-19 may or may not be a virus, but it doesn’t matter one lick. viruses do not cause disease. you can keep the emotional clap trap about people dying.

    • soli says:

      OR, and its a big OR, their treatment in those standard WHO directed hospitals in America and the rest of the world, have been led down the WRONG track. The wrong picture of what is really going on in the body and the WHOs interpretation of the same in order to misguide the populations of the world, by the FDA created ‘medical faculty’ and their sworn axiom not to question what the same WHO tells them. ( You cannot argue with an oncologist that chemotherapy is bad for a cancer patient. That he is moving in exactly the opposite direction as to the correct path of detoxifying the body first and using proper fruit juices and possibly hypnotizing the patient, so that the ‘fear element’ does not accentuate the condition. He will tell you, quite simply,”This is what we have been trained to do”. Simple ! Chemo will create the cancer, and seal the patient’s fate of no return )

      The same thing is going on with covid.
      Using ventilators at the wrong settings , or using them where they should NOT be used,suffocating the already fearful patient ; face masks which deprives you of fresh oxygen and forces you to inhale your own stale air, which does contain bodily poisons , packing the patients in closed rooms, windows closed, patients confined to their beds in perpetual fear ( how the hell do you get up to use the toilet ? ),people more of the herd, not the ‘thinking’ type, a constant murmur in the room of somebody dying, sleeping in discomfort with all those gadgets attached to you, your body under stress and hence producing cortisol and its subsequent acidification of the body, resulting in the coagulation of the blood and further accentuation of the oxygen-deprivation of the respiratory system to function freely.No treatment to alkalize the body. Place me just two days in one of these ‘hospitals’ and I will increase your count by one, guaranteed.
      There is a poison there, since strong healthy, young doctors/ nurses are being affected and some even dying. They are also wearing face masks 16 hours a day, have high cortisol levels, believe the lie, confined to closed rooms, dressed in space suits,tired, low immunity. The approach to the treatment is however to accentuate the number of deaths. That is, the treatment is meant to murder people, like in a cancer treatment, not cure them. Especially in America, a nation which has lost its soul. And you have Gates and Fauci and Birx running the show.

  18. Amanda says:

    Jon- Thanks for all of your hard work and excellent posts, exposing the lies of the medical mafia.

    Dr. Robert Wilner calling out the HIV causes AIDS hoax!!

    December 7th 1994 Hollywood Roosevelt Hotel, Greensboro, N.C., Dr Willner (a medical doctor of 40 years experience) an outspoken whistleblower of the AIDS hoax.

    Infront of a gathering of about 30 alternative-medicine practitioners and several journalists, Willner stuck a needle in the finger of Andres, 27, a Fort Lauderdale student who says he has tested positive for HIV. Then, wincing, the 65-year-old doctor stuck himself.

    In 1993, Dr. Willner stunned Spain by inoculating himself with the blood of Pedro Tocino, an HIV positive hemophiliac. This demonstration of devotion to the truth and the Hippocratic Oath he took, nearly 40 years before, was reported on the front page of every major newspaper in Spain. His appearance on Spain’s most popular television show envoked a 4 to 1 response by the viewing audience in favor of his position against the “AIDS hypothesis.” When asked why he would put his life on the line to make a point, Dr. Willner replied: “I do this to put a stop to the greatest murderous fraud in medical history. By injecting myself with HIV positive blood, I am proving the point as Dr. Walter Reed did to prove the truth about yellow fever. In this way it is my hope to expose the truth about HIV in the interest of all mankind.”

    He tested negative multiple times.
    He died of a Heart attack 4 months later 15th April 1995 (IMO – TPTB gave him a heart attack–letting him continue to live a healthy life would have proven his point, that they were LYING about HIV causing AIDS).


    “Doctors for the Truth” Speak Out in Madrid, Denounce Covid-19 “False Pandemic”

    Renowned Forensic Doctor Destroys Media ‘Killer Virus’ Lies: ‘Nobody has Died of Covid-19 in Hamburg without Previous Illnesses’ (Watch)

    It’s all BS!!!!!!!!!!!

    Please copy and share!!!

  19. Billy Hill says:

    I thought this was one of the best written articles yet.


    The last part about ebola ruined everything,

    Do you think ebola did not exist?

    Or some very dangerous thing?
    Something swept through africa killing huge numbers of people and if you are implying that did not happen that is wrong. I think bringing ebola into the conversation is a mistake.
    The proof of evidence argument does not exist when all around you is death as ebola showed.Ebola almost iis the worst argument against all the rest of the article.
    I am a messy human with as many flaws as anyone so I am a moron and equal to all.

    • mirko says:

      Yes, pain and death in Africa are shocking, regarding Ebola.
      It is hard to read that.
      I would like to understand, too.
      Is it Ebola, or other culprits?
      Could it be the result of a poisoning or experience on African people?
      We know that Pharma are unscrupulous when testing new medics or vaccines on poor populations.

    • CynthiEmm says:

      I can’t recall now where I read that heavy antibiotic use (certain ones) can cause symptoms of Ebola.

  20. Billy Hill says:

    I am not looking to argue or make enemies but have a right to my opinion and to ask questions.

    Another question to ask everyone for any info I can get is:
    I have a 14 year old that should have started High school but Az or her school is only doing online because of “a pandemic”.
    How can they legally suspend in class learning without proving the reason for the suspension of in class learning.
    Can they legally only offer online learning?

    I am a weirdo dinosaur that has never owned a cell phone but had a computer before windows. I think kids need to socialize in person to learn to be human. Play is absolutely essential. My kid does not have a cell phone but has a computer but not for school work.
    I discourage any screen time. Childhood makes Adults or better adults.

    • tony bonn says:

      i love your philosophy. regarding the legality i am not sure. but for those who are forced to wear masks, let me point out that this is an issue osha studied long before coronascam. It did so because many employers in the construction industry were forcing workers to wear masks “for their own safety.” unfortunately some suffered heart attacks – enough so that osha got involved.

      to abbreviate the story, after extensive study, osha issued the following regulations. 1. a person must be medically qualified to wear a mask 2. a person must be fitted with a mask by a certified professional 3. an employer must provide training for donning, doffing, wearing, and disposing of a mask. 4. masks are task specific and not safe for indefinite wear.

      masks are toxic and lethal whose reasons i will not explain because it has absolutely nothing to do with your question – i went down a rabbit hole because the rationale for your school’s closure is baseless and without a scintilla of scientific evidence. it is pure quackery all the way.

  21. Billy Hill says:

    I would think they would need proof for suspending public in class education.
    We are required to educate children and online is not teaching or healthy
    I would think it an easy way to get this proof of virus question in the public eye.
    I do not desire my kid spend eight hours a day on a computer and that is not including homework. No books or paper.

  22. soli says:

    DDT was the reason for the polio virus scam. Which led subsequently to the production world wide of the polio vaccine. And millions of dollars of profits for the vaccine makers. Did anybody ask to ‘see’ what the virus looked like. No computer Cgi in those days and everybody believed what the Rockefeller WHO told them. “The They” can argue that since by definition “virus” means “poison”, the “They” cannot be rightly questioned, since the “Poison” DOES exist. The DDT molecule, in a lipid ‘envelope’ or not. Plain and simple, this polio ‘virus’ , the DDT molecule, does exist and does cause havoc in the human body. Koch postulates not necessary. Relate this to covid-19. THERE IS A POISON THERE AND IT DOES KILL PEOPLE.
    Please , all you researchers and microbiologists out there find what this is, before they stick to this bull about a living virus and that anytime it will fly into your throat, and with this pretext want to vaccinate the world with the Gates ID2020 virus, which you can be sure is a real VIRUS, operable with 5G and AI.
    We all know what Gates and co. are after and the only way to stop them is to find the truth. TODAY. Tomorrow is too late. Gate ,Fauci and bat-faced Tedros must be silenced.
    The Russians know. The Russians will not tell. They want the world to suffer at the hands of the cabal which so decimated their nation and murdered their Czar!
    There is a poison out there. It does kill. The Israelis made it. Call it what you may. JUST FIND WHAT IT IS !! Stop Gates !

  23. mirko says:

    Documentary (French): The origin of AIDS:

    From polio vaccine tests in Belgian Congo in the fifties with the use of chimpanzee kidneys.

    An interesting approach.

    And an 1997 documentary:
    AIDS-The doubt

    Those documentaries would probably be banned from TVs nowadays.

  24. Steve Lipohar says:

    I work with applying a technology to cutting tools. A ground sharp edge has micro fractures and applying a brush, composed of various diamond grits can and will smooth the the edge and has been proven to enhance the life of the tool. I sell the machines which have a program designed to allow an end user to manipulate the software and achieve a predictive result. The company down the street with the same machine can manipulate their unit to produce a different outcome which perhaps may result in a superior producing tool. For me, the art and nuance of this particular niche and science is obvious because it’s my livelihood. Reading this post….Does HIV exist? points me to the conclusion of listening to people who have an obvious inside track of knowledge I myself don’t have.

    When I read the reports Jon publishes and he quotes experts in their field, I digest the information. If anyone contested my comment or views on the area of my expertise and there was a conflict, I would stand behind what I know to be a proven fact with predictable results. My skill is concentrated on selling machines that will without a doubt enhance a cutting tools performance. It’s not even a debatable argument. When I read the opinions of skilled professionals in the area of viruses I listen because I want to learn and become informed.

    Thank you Jon R for your continued effort to inform those of us wanting to learn and be informed.

  25. Terry says:

    If one has to use sugar, a centrifuge, until it reaches that density, is it really being isolated? Isn’t isolation just that? You don’t mix it with anything to see it. If there are no viruses, and I don’t. Elite e there are, how do you get something that looks like a “retrovirus”? This seems to be the medical version of legalese. Taking many liberties to define something that doesn’t exist. Many believe the acquired immune deficiency syndrome was prominent in homosexual men because at that time, bath houses etc., were well known for the use of “poppers” which allowed for rectal sphincter relaxation, something not needed in the heterosexual community. Although many women also took them as they increase sexual appetite, but they were mostly used in the male homosexual community. Continued use along with not enough sleep, a lot of alcohol and other drugs, caused the body to become sick in an attempt to detox and resume a healthy homeostasis. None of that was considered when Fauci was out there killing people with AZT.

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