9/11 official scenario: what about the pools of melted metal?
by Jon Rappoport
February 8, 2014
I began by reading reports of melting dripping metal at the World Trade Center after the attack on September 11th.
Some of these reports come from weeks after the attack.
This seemed quite strange.
Following links, I arrived to Dr. Steven Jones and his famous paper, “Why Indeed Did the WTC Buildings Completely Collapse?”
Jones takes up this issue and much more. His paper is well worth reading.
Jones’ approach goes beyond the argument about whether the buildings collapsed because the steel construction melted or just weakened.
The molten pools of metal are the anomaly. They need to be explained. Jones is arguing that these long-lasting pools wouldn’t have resulted from burning jet fuel.
His conclusion, which he states needs further investigation, is that thermite charges were the cause of the pools. And why else would thermite be present in the buildings, except for the purpose of bringing them down?
I fully understand that all sorts of assertions have been made to explain the collapse of the buildings. And I’m sure people will write me with their assurances about what really happened on 9/11.
But in this article I’m simply pointing out that what appears to be confirmed observation of molten pools of structural metal from the WTC is a key.
Why? Because it cannot be explained or accounted for by the official 9/11 scenario.
Yes, there are other facts that can’t be explained by the official scenario. The molten pools are one important fact, and Jones takes it up. Here are quotes from his paper:
“We start with the fact that large quantities of molten metal were observed in basement areas under rubble piles of all three buildings: the Twin Towers and WTC7.”
“There are several published observations of molten metal in the basements of all three buildings, WTC 1, 2 (“Twin Towers”) and 7. For example, Dr. Keith Eaton toured Ground Zero and stated in The Structural Engineer, ‘They showed us many fascinating slides’ [Eaton] continued, ‘ranging from molten metal which was still red hot weeks after the event, to 4-inch thick steel plates sheared and bent in the disaster’. (Structural Engineer, September 3, 2002, p. 6.)”
“…the observed surface of this metal is still reddish orange some six weeks after 9-11. This implies a large quantity of a metal with fairly low heat conductivity and a relatively large heat capacity (e.g., iron is more likely than aluminum) even in an underground location. Like magma in a volcanic cone, such metal might remain hot and molten for a long time — once the metal is sufficiently hot to melt in large quantities and then kept in a fairly-well insulated underground location. Moreover, as hypothesized below, thermite reactions may well have resulted in substantial quantities (observed in pools) of molten iron at very high temperatures – initially above 2,000 °C (3,632 °F). At these temperatures, various materials entrained in the molten metal pools will continue to undergo exothermic reactions which would tend to keep the pools hot for weeks despite radiative and conductive losses. Any thermite cutter charges which did not ignite during the collapse could also contribute to the prolonged heating.”
Jones goes on to explain thermite reactions.
“I maintain that these observations are consistent with the use of high-temperature cutter charges such as thermite, HMX or RDX or some combination thereof, routinely used to melt/cut/demolish steel. [See Grimmer, 2004] Thermite is a mixture of iron oxide and aluminum powder. The end products of the thermite reaction are aluminum oxide and molten iron. So the thermite reaction generates molten iron directly, and is hot enough to melt and even evaporate steel which it contacts while reacting.”
“Thermite contains its own supply of oxygen and so the reaction cannot be smothered, even with water. Use of sulfur in conjunction with the thermite, which we call ‘thermate,’ will accelerate the destructive effect on steel, and sulfidation of structural steel was indeed observed in some of the few recovered members from the WTC rubble, as reported in Appendix C of the FEMA report.”
“On the other hand, falling buildings (absent incendiaries such as thermite) have insufficient directed energy to result in melting of large quantities of metal; any particles of molten metal somehow formed during collapse will not coalesce into molten pools of metal!”
“The government reports admit that the building fires were insufficient to melt steel beams—then where did the molten metal pools come from? Metals expert Dr. Frank Gayle (working with NIST [National Institute of Standards and Technology]) stated: ‘Your gut reaction would be the jet fuel is what made the fire so very intense, a lot of people figured that’s what melted the steel. Indeed it did not, the steel did not melt.’ (Field, 2005; emphasis added.)”
“And in a fact sheet released in August, 2006, NIST states: ‘In no instance did NIST report that steel in the WTC towers melted due to the fires.’”
“None of the official reports tackles the mystery of the molten metal pools. Yet this is clearly a significant clue to what caused the Towers and WTC 7 to collapse. So an analysis of the composition of the previously-molten metal is required by a qualified scientific panel. This could well become an experiment crucis.”
“Prof. Thomas Eagar explained in 2001 that the WTC fires would NOT melt steel: ‘The fire is the most misunderstood part of the WTC collapse. Even today, the media report (and many scientists believe) that the steel melted. It is argued that the jet fuel burns very hot, especially with so much fuel present. This is not true… The temperature of the fire at the WTC was not unusual, and it was definitely not capable of melting steel.. The maximum flame temperature increase for burning hydrocarbons (jet fuel) in air is, thus, about 1000 °C — hardly sufficient to melt steel at 1500 °C.’”
Jon Rappoport
The author of two explosive collections, THE MATRIX REVEALED and EXIT FROM THE MATRIX, Jon was a candidate for a US Congressional seat in the 29th District of California. He maintains a consulting practice for private clients, the purpose of which is the expansion of personal creative power. Nominated for a Pulitzer Prize, he has worked as an investigative reporter for 30 years, writing articles on politics, medicine, and health for CBS Healthwatch, LA Weekly, Spin Magazine, Stern, and other newspapers and magazines in the US and Europe. Jon has delivered lectures and seminars on global politics, health, logic, and creative power to audiences around the world. You can sign up for his free emails at www.nomorefakenews.com
thermite? Not able to sustain +-700ºC temperatures for days! Look at nuclear, and maybe the light will shine, warm enough!
Alan Sabrosky has worked at the War College for over a decade. He’s a patriot…. A patriot unlike the “patriots” you see in the upper echelon of fed agencies, dual citizens who are loyal to a nation not ours. Sabrosky began believing the horsesh*t spewed by those in charge. Along with those dual citizens gathered ’round to help us “believe” the official story, (insert fairytale). Dual citizens like Michael Chertoff who ordered the “patriots” at the FBI to repatriate the 5 “dancing shlomos” back home in Israel where they discussed their orders to be there and film “the event”. Sabrosky now believes unequivocally that 9/11 was orchestrated by Israel with help, (either active or passive), from those within “our” government. When you consider the fortuitous point where the “missile” struck the Pentagon, (right where the research into the stolen 2 plus trillion dollars was being investigated), only the typical idiot American or a dual citizen “art student” would believe or pretend to believe. Sabrosky and fellow high ranking military men believe Israel did this just as they did the USS Liberty, the King David Hotel etc. He feels once the consensus is accepted Israel will cease to exist. I admire Sabrosky and believe him but he’s giving way too much credit to the majority of Americans.
“The men the American people admire most extravagantly are the greatest liars; the men they detest most violently are those who try to tell them the truth.”
– H.L. Mencken
The above quote is very much more accurate regarding the American people….. Just as happened in Russia, Danzig, Armenia, The Ukraine and the bulk of Eastern Europe
Think about this; As of 2 or 3 years ago, it was said that over 80% of “enlightened” Americans were /are totally unaware that three building were brought down that day and one was UNTOUCHED by anything.
Read the chapter of Solzhenitsyn’s book here;
http://www.theoccidentalobserver.net/articles/MacDonald-Solzhenitsyn-200-Years-Together-18.html
Now tell me, see any similarities in what the Russians/Eastern Europe suffered through and what is headed our way?
This nation is rife with “patriots”. But they’re patriotic to those who can influence their “careers” and those who sign their paychecks, certainly not our shredded Constitution, our bill of rights etc. They’re all blow-flies swarming around the bloating corpse of the U.S. From those in your local cop shops to those ordered to sit in the Oval Office. We are, figuratively and literally on our own.
I keep hearing about “mass arrests” of the “dark forces” on the horizon. I presume they they can only relate to one major event in recent human history. Should that be the case, does anybody really think the current president will make the same mistake that JFK made?
Nuff said…
The Langalier.
If I’m reading you correctly, no, not a chance. The current president and virtually all presidents after JFK, “played ball” to a greater or lesser degree. The only ones “JFK’d” in my opinion were those who wouldn’t play ball. The Central Bank/Wall Street boys are literally drunk with power. They’re awed by the ease and degree they can “dry assault” the denizens of this country and have decided that, “what the hell, these fools are too terrified to do ANYTHING! It’s time to bring the global screwing (we’ve used them for) home!
John Dean/Barry Goldwater worked on a book. Dean, during an interview stated they had found some very old data to a research project. The research showed that no matter HOW corrupt/out-of-control an administration was they were guaranteed to STILL have the support of +/- 23% of the populace. That % were so “authority must be supported” mind-numb, if the administration in power leapt over a cliff screaming follow me! that percentage WOULD, w/o question.
This was the mistake I was referring to.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QeYgLLahHv8
He underestimated the resolve of the enemy and it cost him his life.
Good point. their evil, greed and the number of filth one can buy with more money than God. The Neo-Judas class of Western “Christians”.
are you suggesting that John Kennedy pooped in his pants because he couldn’t find a toilet at the white house?
It’s important for people to not pretend that Israel is solely responsible for the crimes of Washington. While Israel, AIPAC, the ZoA (Zionist Organization of American), which is older, albeit apparently smaller in number than AIPAC, etc. are real problems for and in the USA, there’s more to the whole “picture” than this. People who wish to learn more about AIPAC, the ZoA and Israel with respect to Washington can certainly get plenty at Grant F. Smith’s website, http://www.IRMEP.org.
With that said, I’ll provide comments about two things you said, paschn.
Quote: “Dual citizens like Michael Chertoff who ordered the “patriots” at the FBI to repatriate the 5 “dancing shlomos” back home in Israel where they discussed their orders to be there and film “the event”.
What position was Chertoff in when he supposedly issued the order you speak of? I’ve known about the “dancing Israelis”, or what I called the cheering Israelis, over a decade ago and don’t recall having ever read or heard that he gave this order to the FBI or anyone else.
According to the Wikipedia page about him, his employment years in government were:
a) “2nd Secretary of Homeland Security” from Feb 15, 2005 to Jan 21, 2009 ;
b) “Judge of the United States Court of Appeals for the Third Circuit” from June 10, 2003 to Feb 15, 2005 ; and
c) “U.S. Attorney for the District of New Jersey” from 1990 to 1994.
When did he supposedly issue the order you speak of and in what government position was he at that time?
I just spent over an hour searching for sources that would say as you do and came up with nothing that does. There is a historycommons.org page, however, that says the 5 cheering, etc., Israelis who were filmed cheering the attacks on the WTC Towers were released 71 days after 9/11 and that they were arrested or detained on 9/11, so they were released prior to the end of 2001 and there’s no mention of Chertoff or anyone else specifically named for ordering the FBI to release these clowns.
http://www.historycommons.org/entity.jsp?entity=urban_moving_systems
See the entry for, quote:
“3:56 p.m. September 11, 2001: Five Apparent Israeli Spies Arrested for Puzzling Behavior at Time of First WTC Attack”.
Here’s a similar page providing additional information about the release of these Israelis.
http://www.historycommons.org/context.jsp?item=a091101fiveisraelis
One thing I find a little odd is that that entry provides links for 3 articles that apparently reported that the 5 cheering Israelis were seen “watching and videotaping the first crash into the WTC” from “the roof of a building at Liberty State Park”. Meanwhile, the video I saw of maybe 4 or 5 Israelis cheering, jumping up and down with obvious “joy”, while watching one or else both of the aeroplanes hit the WTC weren’t filmed doing this from the roof of a building. Instead, some were on the roof of a van and the others were on the ground, all festive. I haven’t seen the video for years now, but I think some were on the ground, for I seem to vaguely recall seeing one or more of the clowns getting something out of the van or coming out of it, so they had to be on the ground. But I also seem to recall that some were on the roof of the van as if this would give a better or clearer view of the aeroplanes hitting the towers when there was nothing below to obstruct the view. After all, they were parked right next to the river.
Here’s an HC page for Chertoff’s profile.
http://www.historycommons.org/entity.jsp?entity=michael_chertoff
The following page provides a more detailed description of what was reported about the cheering Israelis on a building rooftop, as well as at a van.
http://www.historycommons.org/timeline.jsp?timeline=complete_911_timeline&geopolitics_and_9/11=israel
See the following entry, quote:
“Shortly After 8:46 a.m. September 11, 2001: Neighbor Sees Suspicious Men Documenting First WTC Attack and Cheering, Calls Police”.
Quote: “A homemaker living near Liberty State Park, Jersey City, New Jersey sees three men behaving strangely on a nearby roof and alerts the authorities. This homemaker, who has given only her first name Maria, is called by a neighbor shortly after the first plane has hit the WTC and is told about the impact. She has a view of the WTC …. However, she also notices three young men kneeling on the roof of a white van in the parking lot of her apartment building. …”.
I saw a video showing what I’m sure, though with distant recollection, more than 3 cheering Israelis at the van.
The immediately following entries in the last HistoryCommons page linked above provide more information about the variable number of cheering Israelis seen. F.e., the immediately next entry is about BlackAgendaReport.com editor Glen Ford having published a piece in 2008 regarding 9/11, including “two presumably Israeli witnesses to the collapse of the second World Trade Center tower who exhibit suspicious behavior”. The park was closed to vehicular traffic, but Ford approched these two Israeli clowns and they said they were from the press after he said that he was, but they showed him press cards that were fake and admitted that they were fake.
Three entries further down the page is one entitled, “3:56 p.m. September 11, 2001: Five Apparent Israeli Spies Arrested for Puzzling Behavior at Time of First WTC Attack”.
It’s the same as provided in other HC pages for entries with the same title. But it helps to confirm the number of cheering Israelis across the Hudson from the WTC varies according to different reports.
And I find nothing about Chertoff being responsible or solely responsible, as you clearly inferred, for the release of any of these Israeli clowns. I searched HC, 911review.com and 911research.wtc7.net, and found nothing that says Chertoff was responsible. There’s some mention of him, but nothing at all says or even remotely infers that he was responsible for the FBI releasing these cheering Israeli clowns. If it had been reported, in any way, that Chertoff was solely responsible for this release, then HC would likely have this information.
It’s Paul Thompson’s website and very extensive 9/11 Timeline, which initially was published using CooperativeResearch.org but was later changed to HC, which is no longer maintained only by him; not according to the following Wikipedia page about this anyway.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Terror_Timeline
Here’s another page about it.
http://911blogger.com/topics/cooperativeresearchorg
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I’ll now comment on something else in your post.
Quote: “When you consider the fortuitous point where the “missile” struck the Pentagon, (right where the research into the stolen 2 plus trillion dollars was being investigated), only the typical idiot American or a dual citizen “art student” would believe or pretend to believe”.
No missile hit the Pentagon!
If you wish to claim that a commercial airliner or any aeroplane is a missile, then go right ahead, but you’re going to be mis-describing the aircraft that hit the Pentagon. There’s real and plenty of proof that a large airliner like AA 77 definitely is what hit the Pentagon on 9/11.
Search 911review.com and 911research.wtc7.net and you’ll find the proof as well as excellent explanation. People need to use only “Pentagon” for search term and if using Google, StartPage, IXQuick or DuckDuckGo search engines, then the search is easily done using the following terms.
Pentagon site:911review.com
Pentagon site:wtc7.net
The latter usually returns links only for pages at 911research.wtc7.net, but if there’re any pages found at wtc7.net as well, then links for these will also be returned with the search. All three websites are associated or from the same group. These were initially begun by Jim Hoffman, but I have an impression that either he isn’t editing these today, or he isn’t doing it alone. The original content is still present and it’s just that I’m not sure about who’s maintaining these three websites today; websites that’ve been available for a decade or longer and specifically about 9/11, albeit also mentioning historical false flag attacks. I think wtc7.net was created much later, while 911review.com and 911research.wtc7.net have been available for a decade or more.
The following page makes it clear that the websites are maintained by a team, rather than a single person, but also says that Hoffman is “the person most identified with the creation of 9-11 Research”.
http://911research.wtc7.net/about/adhominem.html
People will find plenty of pages at these websites about the attack at the Pentagon.
I hope that you don’t also promote the nonsensical theories with which people claimed that NO PLANES hit the WTC towers, as well. There’re mischievous people who claimed that what people saw were holographic imaging used to make it look like aeroplanes or jets hit the towers. This nonsense was debunked and exposed a decade or more ago, but there’re people who still post completely debunked “theories” that never even qualified, scientifically, as theories. This sort of nonsense apparently did greatly decrease over recent years and I always contributed to try to help make this happen whenever coming across posts presenting garbage “theories”; but, there’s still some of it being presented. It’s been seeming to be much less frequent though.
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Given that you evidently don’t back up claims that you post, what value does the rest of your post have? “For crying out loud”, you say or certainly do clearly infer that Chertoff, alone, was responsible for the FBI releasing the Israeli clown characters, and you continue repitition of the totally debunked “theory” that an airliner isn’t what hit the Pentagon on 9/11.
You need to carefully research the material you use, unless you’re the one acting, alone, by yourself, relying on nothing else for sources, for saying things that you provide no back-up for.
http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/fiveisraelis.html?q=fiveisraelis.html
Were you able to find any information about Chertoff’s stock in the corporation selling the X-ray machines “Homeland Security” felt we needed to secure our airports while Israel proper, (security experts), have deigned to use dogs? We’ve put so much stock in the expertise of that terrorist nation they train our cops, guard our ports, airports etc. which seems rather odd since they dropped the ball so spectacularly on 9/11. Still, we must have full-body scanners, they use dogs. which is it are they competent or are we suckers? as for the “five dancing shlomos”,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X63CQ-dXkwU&feature=player_detailpage
Note the 2nd paragraph;
http://www.dhs.gov/michael-chertoff-homeland-security-secretary-2005-2009
paschn,
Thanks for the WHR link. The piece doesn’t mention anything about any particular person having ordered the FBI to release the detained 9/11 “dancing Israelis”, but the article does make it clear why I’ve seen different numbers reported about the Israelis detained on and following 9/11 in relation to their behaviour on 9/11 and as reported by people who witnessed these characters at different locations. It’s the best article I had seen about all of this.
As an FYI note for other readers of this post, the end of the WHR page has several “See also” links and there’s definitely material worth reading from these articles.
Also, wherein WHR provides references links 23, 24 and 25, 23 and 25 are for the same March 2007 article by Chris Ketham at CounterPunch.org. The difference is that 23 is for the CP page, which only provides a very short excerpt and follows this with a link for purchasing the full article in a PDF; and link 25 is for a full copy that WHR made available for free online reading. I’m in the process of reading it right now. It’s a considerably extensive piece, providing quite a lot of information about the clown Israelis characters on 9-11 as well as other Israeli spies in the US.
The 2002 “See also” link following the WHR article you/paschn provided the link for is for a very short Fox News report entitled,
“Police Seize Rental Truck With TNT Traces”.
Fox published the piece in May 2002 and it’s about a couple of Israelis caught speeding with a rented Budget truck. The police, as well as military investigators or the FBI, found traces of TNT on one of these Israelis, plus other traces in the vehicle. Also, one of the two Israelis was altogether illegally in the US and the other one “was in violation of his visa”. Military got involved because these Israelis were very near a USN air station in Washington state.
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Thanks for the DHS.gov link. The page doesn’t say Chertoff ordered the release of the 9/11 “dancing Israelis” et al, but it clearly states what position he had in 2001.
As for the video you included, it’s a good piece by AlienScientist, who’s Jeremy Rys, and I listened to this quite a while ago, in addition to other 9/11 videos at the AlienScientist and WarCrime911 YouTube channels, both being by J. Rys; but, what’s your reason for including it in your reply to me?
Is it because the video contains clips of the “dancing Israelis” on 9/11? If that’s the purpose, then I wouldn’t watch a 43 video just to see the short clip of those clowns, for I’ve seen very short videos about this in the past. If recalling correctly, then some of those videos were only for showing video-recordings of the group celebrating the attacks on the WTC towers.
I wouldn’t need to see even those short ones again after having read the WHR article you provided a link for.
paschn,
Regarding whether or not Chertoff ordered the release of the 9/11 “dancing Israelis”, the WHR piece you provided a link for makes no similar mention, but the reference links 23 and 25, which are for the same article by Chris Ketcham at CounterPunch.org, just that link 23 is only for a very short excerpt with a link for purchasing the full article in a PDF, while link 25 is for a free online copy at WHR, does say something related. There’s no mention at all of Chertoff in the article, but it does say the following.
Quote:
In June 2002, ABC News’ 20/20 followed up with its own investigation into the matter, coming to the same conclusion as The Forward. Vincent Cannistraro, former chief of operations for counterterrorism with the CIA, told 20/20 that some of the names of the five men appeared as hits in searches of an FBI national intelligence database. Cannistraro told me that the question that most troubled FBI agents in the weeks and months after 9/11 was whether the Israelis had arrived at the site of their “celebration” with foreknowledge of the attack to come. … Either way, investigators wanted to know exactly what the men were expecting when they got there.
Before such issues had been fully explored, however, the investigation was shut down. Following what ABC News reported were “high-level negotiations between Israeli and U.S. government officials”, a settlement was reached in the case of the five Urban Moving Systems suspects. Intense political pressure apparently had been brought to bear. The reputable Israeli daily Ha’aretz reported that by the last week of October 2001, some six weeks after the men had been detained, Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage and two unidentified “prominent New York congressmen” were lobbying heavily for their release. According to a source at ABC News close to the 20/20 report, high-profile criminal lawyer Alan Dershowitz also stepped in as a negotiator on behalf of the men to smooth out differences with the U.S. government. (Dershowitz declined to comment for this article.) And so, at the end of November 2001, for reasons that only noted they had been working in the country illegally as movers, in violation of their visas, the men were flown home to Israel.
End quote
The DHS.gov page you provided a link for says the following about Chertoff in 2001.
Quote: “Chertoff was previously confirmed by the Senate in 2001 to serve as Assistant Attorney General for the Criminal Division at the Department of Justice. As Assistant Attorney General, he oversaw the investigation of the 9/11 terrorist attacks.”
I assume that that investigation means the 9/11 Commission one.
The page doesn’t say precisely when he became Assistant Att. Gen. in 2001. The Wikipedia page about him says, quote:
“Michael Chertoff (born November 28, 1953) was the second United States Secretary of Homeland Security under President George W. Bush and co-author of the USA PATRIOT Act. He previously served as a judge on the United States Court of Appeals for the Third Circuit, as a federal prosecutor, and as Assistant U.S. Attorney General.”
But, the page doesn’t say precisely when he became Assistant Att. Gen., while also not saying for how long he was in that position.
I’m not find the details about the dates using a general Web search, either, but there must surely be
What surprises me most over all this is the fact that you go, amazingly, to the core of the problem for “information”. In my opinion, one who spends so much time trying to convince himself(?) that things are not as bad or worse than what he imagines would actually use sources such as 20/20 and C.I.A. officers is strange. The lame stream media and globe-trotting terrorist groups such as the C.I.A. et al should be an example of the LAST source an “objective” mind would use to clarify(?) an issue. By virtue of the fact that so few of the denizens of this dying republic were aware of the number of buildings brought down that day, the passing of the NDAA, attack on Habeas Corpus/Posse Comitatus is a huge indictment AGAINST any organization a part of or associated with a fifth column media. Once the C.I.A. toppled the indigenous democratic government in Iran for the mass-murder Eisenhower, their legitimacy was destroyed, (or SHOULD have been destroyed), in the mind of any “objective” person. Me thinks you muddy the waters too vigorously. Perhaps your odd use of tainted “sources” is due to a “vested interest” in the continued belief in them by the public? As a wise person once said,
“. The troll hopes he’ll stir up enough animosity to take people away from the issue ….”
‘Nuf said.
What’s surprising is that you made a claim that you provide no source for supporting; hence, nothing that proves that you’re right. You claimed something I don’t recall ever having learned of before and asked you for links to sources that support what you said. You provided a dhs.gov link and said to focus on the second paragraph in the page, but while it says that Chertoff lead the 9/11 investigation, the only one I ever heard and read of being called that way is the one of the 9/11 Commission. It doesn’t mean that other investigations into matters related to 9/11 didn’t happen, for there those for investigating the Israeli spies who behaved extraordinarily on 9/11; but, I never heard that being called “the 9/11 investigation”.
Simplest thing to do is to not make claims without being able to provide sources for support. We can say that we think Chertoff is the person responsible for the release of the 9/11 “dancing Israelis”, but there evidently definitely were other govt officials who pressed for this release.
You just can’t provide support for any source that proves that your claim is correct. I don’t really care whether you do or don’t. You’ve already proven that you’re unable to do so; therefore, there’s no further point in pressing for something you can’t provide.
Regarding 20/20 and CIA:
I never watch 20/20, but not all CIA people are liars, wittingly part of a scheme to deceive the public, etc. It was CIA analysts who told the Bush-Cheney Administration that there was no proof that Iraq had WMD or that it’d even deploy these if it did have them. It was CIA who told the same Administration that there was no proof that Iran had a nuclear weapons program.
I suppose you think those analysts are liars. After all, you say that no CIA can be trusted.
Quote: “The lame stream media and globe-trotting terrorist groups such as the C.I.A. et al should be an example of the LAST source an “objective” mind would use to clarify(?) an issue”.
Isn’t it also the media that reported the two warnings of those CIA analysts to the Bush-Cheney Admin.? If not, then who learned of it in order to be able to inform the world about it?
Would you also mock former CIA Ops officers who became whistleblowers; f.e., John Stockwell, Phil(ip) Agee and Ralph McGehee? Your answer willd surely be no, but this is a guess. If it’s no, then they served in CIA Ops for years before coming to realize the extreme criminality the CIA Ops were committing.
Not every CIA or FBI employee is a roguish individual. Michael Levine, former DEA officer, became a whistleblower, illustrating that not everyone in the DEA was a corrupt character. We have accounts from ATF, or something related to it, employees who were trying to get gun-running from the US to Mexico stopped and they were obstructed by superiors. One was killed doing his job, trying to stop this running of guns to criminal cartels in Mexico. We learn about this from the Obama Administration’s Operation Fast & Furious program called Gunrunner. So these officers illustrate that not every employee in the agency they worked in was corrupt.
Your generalization condemns all of these people.
Not all cops are bad cops. F.e., Frank Serpico and Michael C. Ruppert. Try to be as significant with your life as they tried to be in their work, and as they have become because of having consciences that permitted them to take serious risks.
It’s better to have some people in the CIA who’re honest and truly trying to do their work properly, for without them we wouldn’t have “leakers”, since to be one requires being on the inside. We wouldn’t have people on the inside trying to do their work as it’s supposed to be done and this applies to CIA, FBI, police forces, etc., etc., etc. Some of these people may unfortunately go along with decisions that should be opposed.
Consider Congress’ vote to authorize war on Afghanistan, f.e. Only 1 member of the whole Congress opposed this authorization. Her argument wasn’t perfect, but she opposed and presented an argument that was understandable for that time. Then consider the vote to authorize recourse to war on Iraq. Far from enough, but many more members opposed this than just 1 person.
Even the NYT and Washington Post, even Fox News, … sometimes report correctly.
It’s good when they do. Unfortunately, it’s far from often enough. Nevertheless, it sometimes happens. When it does, then white bite them for it?
Take the Christopher Ketcham article that WHR provided links for in the piece you provided a link for. I don’t agree 100% with Ketcham’s conclusions. F.e., he wrote as if it’s an absolute certainty that the alleged 9/11 hijackers really hijacked the aeroplanes and that the Israeli spies his article is very much about would’ve only been trying to track the “real” 9/11 plotters. That’s a conclusion that’s omissive. After all, the alleged hijacker or allegedly led the piloting of AA 77 couldn’t even fly a very small Cessna alone and one flight instructor said the guy couldn’t fly at all. But, there’s plenty of information about the Israeli spies in Ketcham’s article and I do believe that it’s true that many FBI officers or agents, possibly also CIA people, were very pissed off about the easy release and deportation of these spies. I do believe that some of these officers and agents wanted to nail these spies as much as possible; but, higher-ups overrode this work.
Well, a similar thing happened to Sibel Edmonds, who worked at the FBI. I suppose you’re going to also mock her?
Btw, Eisenhower wasn’t the C-in-C in 1953 when the CIA operated for orchestrating the overthrow of the then-leader of Iran. The top person responsible was the C-in-C of the USA. Eisenhower was military, not US President.
And even if you’re right about Chertoff having issued the order to the FBI for the release of the 9/11 “dancing Israelis”, the order had to be from higher up than him, or certainly had to be approved of by higher-ups. After all, he wasn’t US President.
You preach like someone of little thinking. There’s absolutely nothing that you said in your last reply that teaches me anything, and your reply, while containing a little content that’s correct, is very poorly thought out.
To right.
paschn,
I was just cleaning out my e-mail Inbox and was reminded that you asked the following question in your post that begins with a link for an article at WHR and also provides a YouTube video.
Quote: “Were you able to find any information about Chertoff’s stock in the corporation selling the X-ray machines “Homeland Security” felt we needed to secure our airports while Israel proper, (security experts), have deigned to use dogs?”
What does that have to do with the article of this blog page, as well as the comments being exchanged between you and I? What does it have to do with what you said about Chertoff having been the one who ordered the FBI to release the 9/11 “dancing Israelis” and possibly other Israeli spies caught operating in the US?
As for Chertoff having stocks in the corporation selling the X-ray machines you’re talking about, he surely wouldn’t be the sole US government official to have stocks in this company.
My first guess about it is that he’d have been in a position of conflict of interest, but this would surely also apply for any other members of government whenever they’re in any positions in which they’re involved in deciding whether or not to allow the use of these X-ray machines.
As for Israel using dogs rather than these machines for security at airports, how many airports does Israel have, especially large ones? It must be very, very few. In that case, maybe Israeli government officials could have stocks in the company, while deciding not to use them for Israeli airport security because very few machines would be needed, so it wouldn’t be all that profitable. Or, maybe they believe the machines provide less security certainty, compared to dogs that are reputed to have strong or highly capable senses.
Maybe the US doesn’t use dogs at its airports due to some people being allergic. Perhaps it’s just for profiting the profiteers. Maybe there’re other possible reasons.
I don’t live in the USA but imagine that the US still uses dogs for detecting or finding explosives, drugs, and possibly other things.
“The story of the largest spy ring ever discovered inside the United States was soon hushed up: “Evidence linking these Israelis to 9/11 is classified. I cannot tell you about evidence that has been gathered. It’s classified information,” explained a US official, on Cameron’s Fox News Report on the Israeli spy ring and its connections to 9/11. The Israeli national Michael Chertoff, who would become the first head of the Department of Homeland Security, was responsible for letting them off and making sure they got safely back to Israel.”
Excellent article here which outlines many things I hadn’t been aware of previously. The quoted portion above can be seen en toto here;
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2012/08/22/911-and-zion-what-was-israels-role/
What happened to building 7?
To paraphrase James Joyce, “911 is a nightmare from which hopefully most Americans will awake.”
For anyone who hasn’t seen it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1GCeuSr3Mk
Has anyone NOT seen this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_fp5kaVYhk
You better sit down first.
Dr. Judy Wood’s “Where did the Towers Go” explains this situation, perfectly.
http://wheredidthetowersgo.com/
Excellent book.
Where Did The Towers Go? Evidence of Directed Free-Energy Technology on 9/11 — by Judy Wood, PhD
No doubt, lots of eye witness accounts of “stuff glowing” — expressed universally as “molten steel” by the eye witnesses — documented in the book. Raw transcripts reprinted in the book.
~~~
In “Chapter 13 — Weird Fires”, in “Section-C — The Rumor of High heat”…
page 263: Figure 273 (a photo): Strange glowing appearance without [the paper nor the aluminum nearby it burning/melting].
page 269: WOMEN IN HARD HAT (raw transcript): “Steel-toed boots is [sic] one of the biggest things. Out still on the rubble it’s still, I believe um, 1100 degrees. The guys’ boots just melt within a few hours.”
If you put a turkey in those boots it would be incenerated in just a few minutes. Why didn’t the feet inside those boot get incinerated?
~~~~
The take away from the evidence presented in Chapter 13 is…
Hot things glow, but not everything that glows is hot.
Chapter-17 correlates the “Hot things glow, but not everything that glows is hot” of Chapter-13 with the “Tesla-Hutchison Effect” that does that same types of weird distortions and glowing to metal seen at the WTC site — WITH NO RESULTING HEAT OCCURING.
~~~~
Worth reading the whole book. So much evidence presented… pointing to some kind of “exotic directed energy technology” which transmuted the metal of the buildings into dust. What “fell to the ground” was mostly “dustified” metal… with some “glowing, non-hot” metal.
~~~~
[PODCAST]
March 23, 2013
http://newyorkskywatch.com/2013/03/26/new-york-skywatch-march-25-2013/
http://newyorkskywatch.com/podcast/inothernews20130325.mp3
Dr. Judy Wood returns to the show after a tour in the UK and Holland giving presentations connected to her book Where Did The Towers Go? Evidence of Directed Free Energy Technology on 9-11. We also discuss the viability of directed free energy for practical use and how that would change the world. It starts with the process of managing public perception about free energy technology says Dr. Wood.
Dr Wood describes how electricity gravity and magnetism are all related somehow. We talk about the anti-gravity fields that are often around tornadoes and what clues that can offer. We continue to talk about problem solving skills.
As a former professor of mechanical engineering, Dr Wood has extensive knowledge of the educational system and learning processes. She is self taught and practices the method of defining the problem first before solving it. In the context of her amazing arc of research in the book Where Did The Towers Go? Evidence of Directed Free Energy Technology on 9-11, it is important to determine what happened before going to the next step of how it happened. These steps are done before moving to the next one of determining who did it.
Directed Free Energy Technology is a non-explanation. You dont explain an observation by phantasizing about previously unknown technologies. If Woods was serious she would suggest realistic forms of directed energy, such as underground atomic explosions. Unlike what some enthusiastic followers of Wood think there is nothing refuting the nuclear explanation. There are many loose pieces of info genuine or fake evidence and one has to filter it and focus on the important aspects: extremely high temperatures lasting for months. The pulverization of nearly the whole building, extremely high cancer risk rate, as you would expect from radioactive material leaks.
IMHO Jones is the designated “limited hangout guy” here. Does anyone remember the Pons and Fleishman kerfuffle over cold fusion? Well guess who helped torpedo P&F in favor of the hot fusion faction (at least that’s who benefitted). By leading 9-11 truthers down the thermite path, they are lead away from the overwhelming evidence of the use of exotic Directed Energy Weapons in the take down of buildings 1 and 2. So Jones once again plays a key role in service to TPTB / Breakaway Civilization.
I, too, agree that Jones is a “limited hangout guy”.
And, IMO, the investigation of the evidence conducted by scientist Judy Wood is amazing. Very, very thurough examiniation of all the evidence. Her book, in and of itself, is an excellent study in how to analyze evidence.
http://wheredidthetowersgo.com/
Where Did The Towers Go? Evidence of Directed Free-Energy Technology on 9/11 — by Judy Wood, PhD
~~~
[PODCAST]
March 23, 2013
http://newyorkskywatch.com/2013/03/26/new-york-skywatch-march-25-2013/
http://newyorkskywatch.com/podcast/inothernews20130325.mp3
Dr. Judy Wood returns to the show after a tour in the UK and Holland giving presentations connected to her book Where Did The Towers Go? Evidence of Directed Free Energy Technology on 9-11. We also discuss the viability of directed free energy for practical use and how that would change the world. It starts with the process of managing public perception about free energy technology says Dr. Wood.
Dr Wood describes how electricity gravity and magnetism are all related somehow. We talk about the anti-gravity fields that are often around tornadoes and what clues that can offer. We continue to talk about problem solving skills.
As a former professor of mechanical engineering, Dr Wood has extensive knowledge of the educational system and learning processes. She is self taught and practices the method of defining the problem first before solving it. In the context of her amazing arc of research in the book Where Did The Towers Go? Evidence of Directed Free Energy Technology on 9-11, it is important to determine what happened before going to the next step of how it happened. These steps are done before moving to the next one of determining who did it.
Reblogged this on BattleBlue1.
[…] I posted my piece about molten metal at the World Trade Center, I received an unusually large number of emails offering […]
Hello, If you dont believe in Thermite,look at this and decide if the guy fakes it.I dont believe he does.Regards from an swedish guy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kscTVnEcPMk&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Much of the reason the semi-comatose denizens in this country don’t believe it, (aside from Hagee worshippers “taught” that Israel represents “the Chosen”), is “owned” organizations like National Geographic. They put out a film “proving” it couldn’t have been thermite, (they never mentioned Nano thermite). NIST also refuses to show what “logic” they used to prove it was burning furniture that brought down #7 @ free-fall speed siting “national security”. Let’s tell our “leaders” to just cut to the chase and come right out and ask AIPAC/Israel when they’d like them to just hand over complete sovereignty, maybe replace the 50 stars w/ stars of David and create a monument to the FED RES? Outright invade/slaughter a few more M.E. nations for ’em? Hell, these folks ain’t above “buyin’ a stairway to heaven”! Shucks NO!
Jon Cole and David Chandler have done a lot of excellent research proving that the towers and WTC7 were brought down by controlled demolition and highly refined nano thermitic material.. Their videos can be found here:
http://911speakout.org
I’m not sure if Jon Cole has a YouTube channel, but videos with him are certainly available there. David Chandler has the YouTube channel of DavidChandler911.
https://www.youtube.com/user/DavidChandler911
Doing a Web search of YouTube to see if Jon Cole has a channel there doesn’t turn up a link for one, but there’re plenty of videos for talks by and possibly interviews with him.
What I want to know is why the true story of that awful day is not being released to the public. Why are potential traitors not being sought out and investigated? Why the subterfuge!
The enemy is within and they’re powerful “elites”. Does this help to answer your questions?
The question has been asked and answered. Though with less frequency these days I am running across “stray theories” about mini nukes, blah blah blah With the notable exception of one soilitary researcher NOONE has done the pick and shovel work on 9-11 to document, anomalies and all, what actually happened on 9 – 11 – 2001. Fergawdsake, this isn’t rocket surgery simply parse all explanations of 9-11 to see if they explain what all that actually happened, including toasted cars, micronized bodies and unreported hurricanes. If it doesn’t fit you must throw that explanation out. So far the only explanation that fits this is a directed energy weapon / scalar energy, a technology that’s been perfected over the past 50 – 60 years plus or minus. To acknowledge this is to acknowledge a “break away” group that is hoarding exotic technologies that can either enslave or liberate the homo sapiens. At present, enslavement appears to be the agenda.But in the end’ it’s all good. The sooner we all realize this planet is designed as a predatory experience, the sooner we can get over our personal addictions and escape this mildly amusing matrix.
[…] I posted my piece about molten metal at the World Trade Center, I received an unusually large number of emails offering […]
[…] 9/11 official scenario: what about the pools of melted metal? […]
THE NEW YORK TIMES
* * * * *
Thursday October 28, 1993 Page A1
“Tapes Depict Proposal to Thwart
Bomb Used in Trade Center Blast”
By Ralph Blumenthal
Law-enforcement officials were told that terrorists were building a bomb that was eventually used to blow up the World Trade Center, and they planned to thwart the plotters by secretly substituting harmless powder for the explosives, an informer said after the blast.
The informer was to have helped the plotters build the bomb and supply the fake powder, but the plan was called off by an F.B.I. supervisor who had other ideas about how the informer, Emad Salem, should be used, the informer said.
The account, which is given in the transcript of hundreds of hours of tape recordings that Mr. Salem secretly made of his talks with law-enforcement agents, portrays the authorities as being in a far better position than previously known to foil the February 26th bombing of New York City’s tallest towers.
The explosion left six people dead, more than a thousand people injured, and damages in excess of half-a-billion dollars. Four men are now on trial in Manhattan Federal Court [on charges of involvement] in that attack.
Mr. Salem, a 43-year-old former Egyptian Army officer, was used by the Government [of the United States] to penetrate a circle of Muslim extremists who are now charged in two bombing cases: the World Trade Center attack, and a foiled plot to destroy the United Nations, the Hudson River tunnels, and other New York City landmarks. He is the crucial witness in the second bombing case, but his work for the Government was erratic, and for months before the World Trade Center blast, he was feuding with the F.B.I.
Supervisor `Messed It Up’
After the bombing, he resumed his undercover work. In an undated transcript of a conversation from that period, Mr. Salem recounts a talk he had had earlier with an agent about an unnamed F.B.I. supervisor who, he said, “came and messed it up.”
“He requested to meet me in the hotel,” Mr. Salem says of the supervisor.
“He requested to make me to testify, and if he didn’t push for that, we’ll be going building the bomb with a phony powder, and grabbing the people who was involved in it. But since you, we didn’t do that.”
The transcript quotes Mr. Salem as saying that he wanted to complain to F.B.I. Headquarters in Washington about the Bureau’s failure to stop the bombing, but was dissuaded by an agent identified as John Anticev.
Mr. Salem said Mr. Anticev had told him,
“He said, I don’t think that the New York people would like the things out of the New York Office to go to Washington, D.C.”
Another agent, identified as Nancy Floyd, does not dispute Mr. Salem’s account, but rather, appears to agree with it, saying of the `New York people’:
“Well, of course not, because they don’t want to get their butts chewed.”
To understand the second, look into the first.
“The 1993 World Trade Center Bombing: Decoys, Aliases and NeoConspiracy Theories”
by Tom Secker, 25 Feb 2013
http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-1993-world-trade-center-bombing-decoys-aliases-and-neoconspiracy-theories/5324430
Btw, here’s a link for an online copy of the NYT piece by Ralph Blumenthal.
http://www.nytimes.com/1993/10/28/nyregion/tapes-depict-proposal-to-thwart-bomb-used-in-trade-center-blast.html
I wanted to search to see if there might not be a presently online copy and only used the title of the piece for search term. The link, above, was the first one returned.
Actually, that link is for the article presented using 2 pages. There’s a link for single-page view, so I just tried this.
There’s a correction that was appended to the end of the full piece.
Quote:
Correction: October 29, 1993, Friday An article yesterday about accounts of a plot to build a bomb that was eventually exploded at the World Trade Center referred imprecisely in some copies to what Federal officials knew about the plan before the blast. Transcripts of tapes made secretly by an informant, Emad A. Salem, quote him as saying he warned the Government that a bomb was being built. But the transcripts do not make clear the extent to which the Federal authorities knew that the target was the World Trade Center.
End quote
You have a considerably different copy of the piece, for the copy linked at the top of this comment is much longer and has the correction cited above. What you posted may be a fully exact excerpt, but it’s not even half of the full article; therefore, there’s plenty more to read from it.
For that reason, you could’ve said that you were posted only an excerpt, and then include the link so people would have it to be able to read the complete article.
It’s possible, or I’ll guess it is anyway, that you copied the text from some page where the text didn’t end by saying to go to some other page to be able to finish reading the article. If the text you posted a copy of is all that you saw, with no indication that there was more to the whole of it, then this experience can serve as an example that when getting an article from page A1, then do a web search using the same title, author and publication date in order to try to find an online copy of the piece, after which you can compare the two.
There’s nothing indicating page A1 in the copy of the piece linked at the top of this comment, so what you quoted is from another page or medium, maybe a newspaper in printed form; a hardcopy newspaper, iow.
[…] Nomorefakenews.com. I began by reading reports of melting dripping metal at the World Trade Center after the attack on September 11th. […]
That’s a good thing, for if you had begun reading about “melting dripping steel” at the WTC before 9/11, then you’d need to be seriously questioned. But, and since you didn’t read about it before 9/11, the question is how soon after 9/11, and were the reports you have in mind from mainstream news media, or 9/11 Truth people?
It may’ve well been msm news media, for their tv video footage surely must’ve shown some of the streams of molten steel pouring out of one or both of the two tall towers. I imagine that of the many videos showing this at YouTube, some must’ve been clipped from msm news media film footage.
Isn’t Dan Rather the man who initially spoke of the destruction of the towers as seeming like controlled demolition to him and, according to some 9/11 “conspiracy theorists” anyway, he was then apparently required to be silent about this, to not repeat it again?
Highly recommend a review of the excellent work by former Soviet Nuclear Officer Dimitri Khalezov that explains the molten metal based on 150-kiloton devices below the towers to faciliate end-of-life destruction and removal.
http://ac31.blogspot.com/2011/09/support-ing-evidence-for-dimitri.html
http://www.takeourworldback.com/wtcnukeddisinfo.htm
http://911blogger.com/news/2011-01-16/150kt-nukes-demolished-wtc-debunking-dimitri-khalezovs-ridiculous-claims
Yes, and this has been specifically addressed by Ed Ward in his detailed blogs. [google will not help in finding these] Small fusion devices of tritium/deuterium with low radiation yield and an adjustable kt to higher than Hiroshima are the only possible scientific explanation of the disintegration of the steel and total dewatering of the concrete.
Thermite has very limited action and is a furphy. […]
Americans have an aversion to the blindingly obvious, that modern thermonuclear devices are available and they have and are being used widely by the international […] criminal network (aka US and Israeli govts) to effectively implement their objectives.
Bali, Oklahoma City, Beirut, Syria etc etc. Watch those ‘car bombs’ with big craters. Coming soon to a place near you.
petros, you say Yes to the posting by ‘9/11 the third truth’
But your text contradicts that wellchosen message.
It has not been satisfactorily shown by Ed Ward that such nukes were used. I am not accusing Ward for being a disinformer but his explanation is lacking. Moreover I dont think he meant that the concrete was dewatered calmly turning into dry ‘sand’ if thats what you mean.He meant that the concrete exploded due to its moisture content as the powerful radiation bombarded it from the hypothetical bombs placed above ground. The top of the building looks like the concrete was broken up in pieces and was probably interpreted by Ward as proof of this.
But the observed type of breaking apart by the concrete would be expected from an underground nuke according to Dmitri Khalezovs analysis. Below the top the pulverization would much more complete ie creating smaller grains, thus less visible.
An enormous EMP would have been observed on Manhattan, mobiles and computers in the surrounding would have been destroyed.
It doesnt suffice that something strange happened with a car to conclude that there was EMP as expected from an aboveground nuke.
Read the link above on ac31 supporting evidence.. in particular the posting by redeux, a structural engineer and a nuclear engineer who esteems Ks work and calls it the only case having the logic and rigour which would satisfy this engineer. These debates were censored from prisonplanet but there is a screendump on the mentioned link where the posting by redeux may be read.
Ward seems to have changed his mind about the precise position of ‘his’ nukes without arriving at a reasonable result.
Ks deep underground nukes come without any of the weaknessis of smaller nukes.
Mike, Thanks for your ad hominem attack on Judy Wood. In case you’re not familiar with the term here’s a definition: “Ad hominem usually involves attacking the traits of an opponent as a means to invalidate their arguments. Equating someone’s character with the soundness of their argument is a logical fallacy. Please respond when (or if) you can come up with a cogent argument refuting Wood’s comprehensive research.